nashismoIs shader caching "Really" necessary? Xenia does not use this!
Started by nashismo




8 posts in this topic
nashismo
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11 posts 2 threads Joined: Nov 2017
06-29-2018, 09:12 AM -
#1
So yeah, that is my question.

Here is the thing, I have a very good PC an i7 6700 and I have no problems regarding speed, but most games are nearly imposible to play because of shader caching. Games like Yakuza 3 stutters so bad that it ends up freezing for like 5 minutes, then the game continues.

It is really a terrible thing to use shader caching, because it gives you such a suttering mess, that no matter how good speed you have, you will NEVER have smooth gameplay, I mean whats the point?

And here is the thing, Xenia, a very good emulator for the 360 DOES NOT use any shader cache feature! When games play, they play! Like they are supposed to!

In Dolphin emu, shader caching was fixed, on Cemu shader caching is somehow alleviated by sharing shader caches, but RPCS3 has no solution for this, none!

I guess my question really is, again, is it REALLY necessary to use shader caching? Why?

If anyone knows, please share the info, cheers and thank you guys, you are a great community here.
Srksi
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26 posts 15 threads Joined: Apr 2018
06-29-2018, 03:16 PM -
#2
Xenia "emulates" system that its practically pc in box, witch is process more like porting that real emulation and thats why games work well! Ps3 emulation is like space exploring comparing to that! Dont whine, sit and wait to emulation get better, or if you want it faster be kind - donate Tongue
Ani
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3,690 posts 96 threads Joined: Aug 2017
06-29-2018, 06:19 PM -
#3
Unless you want to wait on same shaders to compile everytime you play the game, a shader cache is needed yes. Wouldn't make sense not to cache them.

Shader cache sharing on CEMU is not allowed on their official communities as shaders are game code. Shader caches can also be transfered from one installation to another in RPCS3, if users do it or not is not our problem, but not allowed in any of our official communities as well.

Dolphin has an Interpreter for the Rendering Pipeline, which is insane but possible as proven on Flipper/Hollywood GPUs. The PS3's RSX is very different.

Not any of the emulators you mentioned emulate the PS3, so they're not valid comparisons. The mentioned systems are all very different from eachothers.
Compiling stutter will be improved over time though with kd-11's shader analyser.
This post was last modified: 06-29-2018, 06:20 PM by Ani.
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nashismo
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11 posts 2 threads Joined: Nov 2017
06-30-2018, 05:44 AM -
#4
Thank you so much any. I really did not mean to complain, I was just wondering "WHY" is the necessity of using shaders and shader caching at all!

That was really the question, but yes, at least for me the "Compiling shaders" part is when the games become unplayable. Ninja Gaiden Sigma for example plays great, not 100% full speed though, but no freezes at all!

Thank you Ani, thank you for your time.
RPCS3_FAN
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42 posts 9 threads Joined: Dec 2017
07-03-2018, 10:09 AM -
#5
(06-29-2018, 03:16 PM)Srksi Wrote: Xenia "emulates" system that its practically pc in box, witch is process more like porting that real emulation and thats why games work well! Ps3 emulation is like space exploring comparing to that!  Dont whine, sit and wait to emulation get better, or if you want it faster be kind - donate Tongue

PS3 and Xbox 360 are using PowerPC CPUs. No one is a x86 System
nashismo
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11 posts 2 threads Joined: Nov 2017
07-03-2018, 12:31 PM -
#6
(07-03-2018, 10:09 AM)RPCS3_FAN Wrote:
(06-29-2018, 03:16 PM)Srksi Wrote: Xenia "emulates" system that its practically pc in box, witch is process more like porting that real emulation and thats why games work well! Ps3 emulation is like space exploring comparing to that!  Dont whine, sit and wait to emulation get better, or if you want it faster be kind - donate Tongue

PS3 and Xbox 360 are using PowerPC CPUs. No one is a x86 System

I was going to say that, none of this emulators are "easy" to develop. In fact the original Xbox was never emulated (until now) for the complexity of the hardware. Is not as simple as, oh it has an Ndivia GPU and uses Directx! Must be easy!

But yeah, the guy is a total noob Shy
This post was last modified: 07-03-2018, 12:33 PM by nashismo.
RPCS3_FAN
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42 posts 9 threads Joined: Dec 2017
07-03-2018, 05:39 PM -
#7
(07-03-2018, 12:31 PM)nashismo Wrote: I was going to say that, none of this emulators are "easy" to develop. In fact the original Xbox was never emulated (until now) for the complexity of the hardware. Is not as simple as, oh it has an Ndivia GPU and uses Directx! Must be easy!

But yeah, the guy is a total noob Shy

I have never accused you to say Emulation is easy. But like RPCS3 Xenia is emulating a PowerPC System. You are refering to the first Xbox ? There are some (I think dead) projects to emulate it. But I don't think they are very far with it.
hr_999
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1 posts 0 threads Joined: Aug 2019
08-15-2019, 04:32 AM -
#8
(07-03-2018, 12:31 PM)nashismo Wrote:
(07-03-2018, 10:09 AM)RPCS3_FAN Wrote:
(06-29-2018, 03:16 PM)Srksi Wrote: Xenia "emulates" system that its practically pc in box, witch is process more like porting that real emulation and thats why games work well! Ps3 emulation is like space exploring comparing to that!  Dont whine, sit and wait to emulation get better, or if you want it faster be kind - donate Tongue

PS3 and Xbox 360 are using PowerPC CPUs. No one is a x86 System

I was going to say that, none of this emulators are "easy" to develop. In fact the original Xbox was never emulated (until now) for the complexity of the hardware. Is not as simple as, oh it has an Ndivia GPU and uses Directx! Must be easy!

But yeah, the guy is a total noob Shy
On CPU side, both PS3 and X360 emulators have to use jit recompiles to convert PowerPC instructions to x86 instructions. But X360 runs a windows system, which means much easier to emulate the system APIs.
On GPU side, X360 uses Directx, which means shader bytecodes are almost the same as on PC.
None of PS3 and X360 are easy to emulate, but X360 is much easier to emulate compared with PS3
kelsein
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1 posts 0 threads Joined: Mar 2020
03-20-2020, 04:57 PM -
#9
(07-03-2018, 05:39 PM)RPCS3_FAN Wrote:
(07-03-2018, 12:31 PM)nashismo Wrote:
I was going to say that, none of this emulators are "easy" to develop. In fact the original Xbox was never emulated (until now) for the complexity of the
myloweslife hardware. Is not as simple as, oh it has an Ndivia GPU and uses Directx! Must be easy!

But yeah, the guy is a total noob
Shy

I have never accused you to say Emulation is easy. But like RPCS3 Xenia is emulating a PowerPC System. You are refering to the first Xbox ? There are some (I think dead) projects to emulate it. But I don't think they are very far with it.
This is awesome. Love this.
This post was last modified: 03-22-2020, 03:15 PM by kelsein.


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