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+--- Thread: Do you think rpcs3, as a HLE, is easier than as a LLE? (/showthread.php?tid=162029)
RE: Do you think rpcs3, as a HLE, is easier than as a LLE? - Guest - 11-21-2024
[quote='[Unknown]' pid='209978' dateline='1399683153']
In PPSSPP, we've even taken HLE a step farther, for performance and compatibility reasons. Outside simply implementing the kernel in HLE, we've also re-implemented some common libc functions (that games include in their own code) in native C++ or jit code. JPCSP does something somewhat similar.
We also plan to use some of these "function replacements" as we call them to resolve compatibility issues, such as places where games write directly to the stencil buffer in ways that just aren't supported using OpenGL.
HLE gives you options when "just not supported" gets involved. LLE basically means "take the long way around."
rpcs3 is also currently emulating threads, if I understand the code right, using native threads. LLE would make this difficult, because presumably it would just emulate the native context switching. So this is another reason it would likely be much slower.
Anyway, if you think that LLE would mean faster development and better performance, I am certainly not trying to spoil your party. I've been wrong at least once or twice in the past, this could be another one of those few moments (I'm joking of course, I've been wrong so often...) But, I'm not likely to change my mind and probably, neither are other people here. If you've worked on other LLE emulators, I recommend you try your hand at a ps3 one.
Once you've shown the truth of your position with an LLE ps3 emulator, it's doubtless that many people will join in to help. Maybe even the same people who have replied here saying LLE is not better. That is, after all, the way to convince people in the open source world.
Good luck.
-[Unknown]
RE: Do you think rpcs3, as a HLE, is easier than as a LLE? - Guest - 11-21-2024
[quote='[Unknown]' pid='210008' dateline='1399749534']
Well, I don't think I would look cool to have an XMB on my computer. I hate the XMB. If you think it'd make you look cool, then just as I said before - have at it. You'll look, feel, and actually *be* cooler if you're the one who actually did it anyway.
As much as I don't like the XMB myself, and am not even slightly interested in wasting my time making it work (in rpcs3 or ppsspp), I do respect hard work. Look forward to seeing any progress you have, if you do decide you'd like to look cool.
-[Unknown]
RE: Do you think rpcs3, as a HLE, is easier than as a LLE? - Ontakeio - 05-09-2014
I have follow up with you guys since back to about 2012 when basic homebrew could work and I'm very impress with the progress you guys have got the emulator to run several retail game binary, but I wish to know what the opinions are regarding high level emulating and low level emulating the ps3.
I realize you guys have want to simply goal: get ps3 games to play.
However I offer different solution and point of view to making rpcs3 more -- and want to know how you expect rpcs3 to be improve with HLE. I am not say that HLE is bad but just wonder why you decide on it and what you find the pro vs cons to be in regard to HLE and LLE.
I have worked on other emulators and with more advanced console LLE is hard but with LLE PCSX2 can play several thousands of PS2 game titles perfectly on good processors and GPUs, plus speeds across whole system. If you are not emulating lv0 system in Power Architecture won't that be a problem for some game as well?
Also you won't be able to run Yellow Dog Linux on rpcs3. Again I not saying HLE is bad but want to know if LLE is really much harder or your opinion on it for overall performance
RE: Do you think rpcs3, as a HLE, is easier than as a LLE? - Nekotekina - 05-09-2014
(05-09-2014, 08:08 PM)Ontakeio Wrote: Also you won't be able to run Yellow Dog Linux on rpcs3.
It's so fuking bad.
RE: Do you think rpcs3, as a HLE, is easier than as a LLE? - ssshadow - 05-09-2014
(05-09-2014, 09:07 PM)NekotekinaHito Wrote:(05-09-2014, 08:08 PM)Ontakeio Wrote: Also you won't be able to run Yellow Dog Linux on rpcs3.
It's so fuking bad.
/thread
Also, I am not sure why you think HLE is slow, OP. To the contrary, you could execute a lot of the game at pretty much native speed. Look at another HLE emulator, ppsspp, which runs great on Android, even my original Nexus 7 which is a slow Tegra 3 at 1 ghz or so can run Persona 3 and many other games perfectly.
RE: Do you think rpcs3, as a HLE, is easier than as a LLE? - Bigpet - 05-10-2014
HLE is mostly faster (in terms of runtime speed). Also, people are going to able to just buy a ps3 game, put it in their BluRay drive and play with HLE. With LLE we'd have to get them to dump the OS from their own PS3 which is just annoying. Also while for LLE we might not have to emulate a bunch of librararies we would have to emulate a lot more meticulous CPU stuff that's only available to lv0 hypervisor and lv1 OS which we don't have to worry about currently because all games run purely in lv2 GameOS. So I honestly don't feel like LLE is worth it but as stated multiple times now, if you feel strong enough about it, you can always do it yourself.
Don't forget the OS is running a full BSD kernel, so we'd have implement an abstraction layer that generates emulated hardware interrupts for things like the disc drive, the network card and the hard-drive. I don't even want to know what else needs to be done in terms of interrupt emulation. I feel like that would make things just harder to get right in the long run.
RE: Do you think rpcs3, as a HLE, is easier than as a LLE? - Ontakeio - 05-10-2014
Hi, good post. I am currently unable to implement this at the moment but thanks for the consideration!
RE: Do you think rpcs3, as a HLE, is easier than as a LLE? - Nekotekina - 05-10-2014
I think the answer is basically given, so I close this thread about nothing.